Geoexchange - glycol in the ground?

Todd Holland
Proposal Status
Ready for Committee Review
Username
Todd Holland
Proposer First Name
Todd
Proposer Email
thollandpe@gmail.com
Proposer Last Name
Holland
Proposer Job Title
Senior Mechanical Design Engineer
Proposer Additional Info
Long time NESEA member, occasional speaker, never been to NYC conference (only Boston).
Proposed Session Description
The earth loops of ground-source heat pump systems often use antifreeze. And while there are several chemicals that can be used for antifreeze, each of these has issues. See following field for beefing up this description.
Why is this session important?
Not yet added to the description above is this is a key issue for how we choose to access a very valuable public resource, underground aquifers. Every designer must acknowledge that it's not a question of if a piping system will leak, but when and how much. And if one of us gets this wrong, we all could pay the price.

Comments

Jodi Smits Anderson Mon, 05/15/2023 - 12:39 pm

No - I agree we need to discuss this incredibly vital issue, but I don't think there is enough here for a whole session. Is there an ability to do a single session or on-the-floor quick presentations? This one could be one of those to ghhighlight the improtance of decisions related to toxins and contamination over time. Todd is wonderful...but...

Xavier Williams Sun, 05/21/2023 - 4:55 pm

No, the speakers have not been confirmed and there is not enough as provided within this proposal for a full session as also expressed by Jodi. After reviewing several other projects relating to geothermal technology, those projects provide potential for a hollistic persective for the emerging technology within NYC. I am not experienced or aware of a time where a proposal was ever considered to be incorperated into another, but the topic presented here is important and that can be a consideration. Although the expressed concern to include government officials and policy makers as potential panelists would not seemlessly allow for the integration of this proposed presentation as a component of another. The upfront cost of geothermal is immense, local incentives and public funding can be crucial for the implementation of the technology. A floor presentation would be a great alternative as Jodi has expressed.

Diversity and Inclusiveness
Centers on our responsibilities for stewardship of a critical public resource, drinking water.
Learning Objectives
Identify the tradeoffs when selecting water or anti-freeze for the fluid in a ground-source heat pump system.
Discuss the choices designers and owners have made, and what decisions, discussions, and discoveries brought them to that choice.
Distinguish the risks of this technology vs. those of other carbon-zero solutions.
Identify the social justice and equity issues that come with the risk inherent in poking a million holes in the ground.
Has this session been presented before?
No
When and Where?
I am not aware of one, but I am new to the ground game.
Target Audiences Level of Expertise
Level 2 - Some prior knowledge helpful.

NYC 2023 Areas of Focus

Session Format Details
A moderated panel discussion that prioritizes audience engagement to present viewpoints, if available, from different stakeholders. Intent is for me to be moderator/introducer, not presenter/stakeholder.
Recommended Length
60-minute session
Comments about your speaker roster
Have not spoken to any officially yet: Dave Madigan from van Zelm, Elizabeth Nolder from RMF, John Kastrinos from Haley & Aldrich, Jeff Urlaub, MEP Geothermal. Institutions: Smith College, Amherst College, UMass, Ball State (I can provide contact details after speaking with them). Local projects: Alafia BDC Redevelopment (Brooklyn NY)
Anything else you'd like to tell us about your session proposal?
I am completely unsure of whether we bring policy makers into this now. Worried that this may be opening a can of worms and subjecting another "green" technology to a level of scrutiny that does not apply to conventional construction and energy systems, thus placing it at further disadvantage.
Reviewer 1
Smits Anderson, Jodi
Proposal #
102
Committee Decision
Rejected